“You go to a party, and you're there in the room with some people who are posing and some people who are over in the corner, you know, crying and telling you about their divorce. And I don't know who you wanna be with at that party, but I'll always be in the corner with the person who's saying the real thing.” Cheryl Strayed
I really love the above quote because it reminds me of me and my best friend, Sasha. Except we left that party and started our own. Everyone could cry where they wanted to. We called our party Mondays because we got together every Monday night. Religiously. Our party started when Sasha was in the thick of telling a hard truth: she wanted a divorce. We ordered in, pulled animal spirit cards, cried out loud and laughed out loud too. Everyone who came to our weekly party became better at saying the real thing because telling the truth is contagious.
I can trace back the beginnings of when I started to say real things out loud. I was 22. I had finally gotten a full-time PR job at Prada. It was the job I always wanted. It would have been the quintessential environment for me to hone my people pleasing expertise. But then I met my new manager: Sasha. I had never met someone so unapologetically herself. Our friendship was like receiving a permission slip to stop pretending. 14 years later, she’s the emergency contact on my kid’s school forms. She’s the reason I became someone who people now come to when they want to say something real. In recent years, this real thing is most often that someone is struggling in their marriage. If there was one thing I could give anyone going through this struggle, it would be a phone call with Sasha. This interview is my way of doing that. And it’s not because she’s survived a divorce and made it so beautifully to the other side, but because she’s excellent at relationships (more on that here). Especially the relationship you have with yourself. Enjoy the wisdom my incredible best friend has to offer, and be sure to share it with the person in your life who needs it right now.
Olivia: Someone calls you and says they are struggling in their marriage. What do you tell them?
Sasha: Struggling means all kinds of things. So when someone comes to me with this kind of story I typically try to find out where the struggle lives - is it really in their marriage, or is it falling on their marriage. Before we go further I think it's important to note that I am definitely not an expert but I do have a lot of these conversations with both men and women because when you've been through it people feel safe in telling you they are struggling. Sometimes safer than telling their best friends or their parents because that may make it too real and they may not really know yet. I find a lot of the struggle is not feeling appreciated or seen. The other person takes them for granted or maybe does not listen. It may feel like they don't care or are on a different page, team, universe. It definitely feels lonely and almost always hard. But what can you do? My answer is a lot. And that's where I start - ACTION. What are you doing about it? What are you doing for yourself? What have you told your husband or partner? Have you been as honest as you are being right now? Are you even honest with yourself about where this might be going? What can you do to soften the anger because the truth is getting divorced (when you have a child/children together) does not rid you of this person. So getting to a better place while married, even if it ends in divorce, is the right idea.
Olivia: They’ve decided it’s over. What happens next?
Sasha: Deciding is generally the hardest part. Everything sort of leads up to this moment and once you've decided you can enjoy the clarity which is very hard to wrap your arms around during the highs and lows of landing on divorce. I'm definitely not saying it's an easy decision and sometimes this decision happens for you and you actually don't get to decide but at least the back and forth, the what ifs, the maybes - they are over. Lots of people will be interested in giving you advice, try not to listen to all the very loud noises and in my experience, make it as quick as humanly possible so you can move on to the new normal. I believe using a lawyer is the fastest way to do this. Having two non-emotional people discuss your situation not in front of you is easier than sitting in a room going back and forth, over and over again. Another piece is building back up your confidence, your emotional stability and your physical strength. Physical toughness and mental toughness are intertwined. I did a lot for myself in the weeks and months following the initial split and you have to find what works for you. For starters, I exercised, practiced meditation and read affirmations pretty much on the hour every hour just to pass the time. If I could feel 1% better tomorrow, I was going to. Divorce can be all consuming and that's okay. You'll come out of it and you'll get to keep the strength you build during this time forever. You'll start to see and get a sense of the things that can be taken from you and the things that can never be. And I hope you'll put a focus on the latter. It will serve you.
Olivia: Extra advice for everyone going through this with kids.
Sasha: This is really hard. As a mother it feels very unnatural to not be with your child for long periods of time and it goes against what people promise motherhood to be. I am generally a positive person so its easy for me to find the silver lining in situations but that doesn't take away the constant gut punches those early days of divorce create. My best trick is after giving my son to his dad I wouldn't go straight home. I would go get a manicure, go meet a friend, head to a coffee shop or really do anything to not drop him and come back. The little bit of space helped me to adjust to now this is his time to spend with his dad. I have deep relationships with both of my parents so I never tried to get in the way of that for my child. The thing about divorce with kids is you still need to co-parent. People say I'm lucky because I have a really nice relationship with my ex-husband but there is nothing about it that is luck. We both work at it. We are respectful, we communicate, we ignore things that I'm sure used to annoy us when we were married and we move it along. We do this because it only impacts your kid now. You two didn't work out but you two will always be your child's family. It’s a constant rise above it situation and it’s a real opportunity. You don't have to be married to be the best parents to your child. Of course, there are a lot of situations that make this extremely challenging if not impossible but it's worth it. The other thing that you may not be able to see right now is the bond you'll have with your kid when it's just you and them. You get to make the environment whatever you want when you're alone and that is extra special.
Olivia: Tell us about getting to the other side.
Sasha: I'm re-married with two other children and one stepson. I wasn't sure if I was interested in getting married again. In fact, I had a baby before deciding I wanted to get married. For me, the other side is "when you know better, you can do better." I know I made mistakes in my first marriage; I know that because everyone does. I want to be a person who takes responsibility. I know my behaviors contributed to not having a happy marriage and I don't blame my ex-husband for everything. I think that's really important as you march to the other side. Everything is not everyone else's fault. I think knowing what didn't work, why it didn't work and what role you played will help in getting to the other side. If you want to get married again, know it won't be perfect but it can be different. Being divorced doesn't mean you're unsuccessful in marriage forever. Everything is one moment in time.
Olivia: Last words of wisdom.
Sasha: Always the same advice no matter the situation: trust yourself. My husband has a piece of art in his office, it says No One Knows Anything. It's really true - you're the only one who knows the truth about your marriage, your kid, your situation, your life. And of course: you got this.
See you next week!
"Everyone who came to our weekly party became better at saying the real thing because telling the truth is contagious." --> this is the party of my dreams. I got energized just reading this intro!!!
Divorce is not something on my mind (and I'm grateful for that!) but I still loved the wisdom here and feel like it applies just as much for those of us who are happily married! There is no "steady state" — a "good marriage" is only good as long as you're both willing to keep showing up and doing the work 🙌🏼I really appreciate the accountability reminder Sasha brings to us all around this.
Thank you both for sharing!!